Ellen Voie answers Questions about CRST Sexual Harassment Case Part I

Inspector+Clouseau In an attempt to clarify the position of Ellen Voie President of “Women in Trucking with regards to Women Truckers and her comments made in a upcoming Documentary, she was asked to respond to a series of questions to put the matter to rest once and for all.

The Q & A between Heather Rose & Ellen Voie is rather lengthy so it will be presented in 3 parts. Included in this post I have included the blog and video in question.

Febuary 22, 2010

Dear Ms. Voie,

My name is Heather Rose and if you are not already aware, I have just recently opened an account on Twitter under the user name @heatherrose2006. I am a second generation Trucker. I began driving when I was 16 years old. I came to twitter only seeking social interaction with people who are of a like mind and of similar interests and came with no axes to grind against anyone. In the short time that I have been involved with the forum on Twitter, I have become friends with quite a few very interesting people of varying opinions and temperaments. As you may or may not be aware, during the short time that I have been involved with Twitter, there has occasionally been a few vehement back and forth, concerning the role which namely you and the organization that you have founded, “Women In Trucking ” are playing, in recruiting women into the transportation industry.

I recently watched the video of you from “The Ought to be a Law” (Admin*** link is to blog and various video sound bytes including Ellen Voie’s & Ronald Fletcher, it has be titled “Bully in Workplace” on other blogs) Documentary. After viewing the short interview, I must admit I came away extremely disappointed at the thought that a individual, who represents herself as an advocate for woman in trucking, would make such a statements as “…now I’m only hearing the company’s side…” Was it honestly, your intension to make it sound like, as an advocate for women in trucking, you had never taken it upon yourself to listen to even one woman’s story out of the 265 women, who sought redress of their grievances against CRST?

I by no means attempt to argue that there are not naive woman who allow themselves to become involved in compromising and abusive situations but being aware of the current industry wide practice of recruiting vulnerable women. IE: Women who qualify for WIA Vouchers as Displaced Homemakers, out of battered women’s/homeless shelters when the corporate culture of denial, delay and character assassination still is most frequently practiced in most training companies. I would sincerely hope that the statements presented as yours were presented completely out of context because I would hate to think that it was your intention, to suggest that these women deserved what they got and the men who assaulted them and the companies who cover for them and enable them, should not be held to answer for what they have done.

On Feb 5th, you or one of your representatives, posted on Twitter an invitation for all to ”Stop and see us at the Midwest Truck Show.” to which I responded, “You can bet your bottom dollar, I would love to stop by and talk to you.” In retrospect I have to admit that my response was a bit brash, as I have not allowed you the opportunity to present your side of the story, countering some of the unflattering things which I heard and read about you and your organization. That same evening I received an email from an individual, who felt the need to defend you from the “venom being hurled” at you, as they put it, you are “the underdog”. They related to me that they had been told by, a ten year friend of yours, that you are “the sweetest person you would ever want to meet”. They also learned “that Ellen’s Dad was a Pastor of a church, and Ellen was raised in a very Christian home.” In the light of this information I feel that instead of allowing the “venom being hurled” to poison my opinion of you and your organization, I would here, give you the opportunity to present your side of the story.

Perhaps it would be best for me to present you with some of the information that I have garnered from various sources concerning you and your organization and allow you counter or confirm its validity. If you would, please begin by explaining what you intended in the statements which you made in the video I referenced above and the following questions: (Admin*** Click Below to watch video in question )

 

Bev

 

Ellen Voie responded on Feb 23 2010:

Heather, thank you for being fair minded enough to ask me for my responses to your concerns. I am happy to respond to your questions and I appreciate your interest in fairness.

Please note the privacy policy under my signature regarding my responses. In an effort for transparency I am including my board chairwoman in this email.

First, let me clarify the clip about bullying. There was 30-45 minutes of interview interaction and I was NOT told that the producer’s only focus was on the CRST case. She took a few seconds of the entire interview out of context. I have talked to the executives at CRST about the case and have tried to locate any woman who was involved in the case. I am not aware of anyone who was sexually harassed at CRST, but if you know of any individuals I would be interested in hearing what they have so say. I had to tell the interviewer that I had only heard the carrier’s side because that’s the truth. You might want to understand the rest of the story regarding CRST.

Are you aware of the letters sent to every female driver at CRST that told them they might have money due them IF they could provide support for the harassment case? Did any one of them contact the company prior to the lawsuit? Did any one of them utilize the anti harassment services provided by the carrier? Do you personally know of any woman who was harassed at CRST who had suffered because of a lack of concern on the part of the carrier? If I could talk to a woman who was harassed I could verify the facts myself. I am not implying that there were no women who suffered any harassment, but I do not have any evidence to support this. The reason the lawsuit was thrown out was, according to the judge, was because, “the EEOC, among other things, acted unreasonably by suing CRST without conducting a proper investigation.” Heather, making assumptions about CRST without any driver verification is not accurate.

Again, if you can identify one woman who suffered sexual harassment at CRST I would like to verify these allegations so I have both sides of the situation. That being said, I am well aware of the harassment in the trucking industry and am greatly concerned about it. That is one of our priorities at Women In Trucking. I would like to see all of us work toward making changes instead of constantly attacking those who are working hard to find solutions. Calling people names on social networking sites is a form of bullying and creates an image of an industry that attacks its own members.

We could create a better environment if we used our energy for positive change instead of devouring our advocates. If you and your partners are truly concerned about this industry, you would allow me and our association to work on making changes and support our efforts. Heather, do you truly believe the allegations that accuse us of “covering up” rape or harassment? When you want something clarified, feel free to contact me or my board of directors. The personal attacks have gone too far and show a lack of maturity. I have been in leadership roles in this industry for over 30 years. If anyone thought that I was not qualified to represent women in trucking, I would not have gotten the support that I have.

These personal attacks have been disturbing to so many professionals who have offered their support and understanding, even to the point of airing a satellite radio segment to denigrate these visible attackers.

I am overwhelmed by the professionals who have reached out to me with encouragement and sincerity. If someone does not support our mission, that’s fine, but why continue to lie and slander me and undermine our efforts?

Here are my responses to your questions:

(Admin*** There are 32 questions that Heather Rose asked of Ellen Voie, because litigation has been inferred by Ellen Voie and the disclaimer on her email, Heather wrote a second email to clarify permission to publish the exchanges in their entirety, only the first 7 have been included in this post because the length of the answers.)

1. What do you consider to be your role in the trucking industry and why do you feel you are qualified to fill that role?

Ellen: I have spent my entire career as an advocate for drivers and their Families. When I was married and co-owner of a small fleet, I was very active in Families of Truckers Support Group and I wrote my Master’s Thesis on the Diverse Identities of Women Married to Professional drivers. I earned my diploma in Traffic and Transportation Management and started as Assistant Traffic Manager at a steel fabricating plant. I have a history of working for driver’s issues and have been involved in national and state legislation for nearly 20 years. I helped write the WI driver’s handbook to include information on sharing the road with trucks. In my position at Trucker Buddy, I used grant money to influence parents and teachers in safe driving practices around tractor-trailers. I started “Trucker’s Pride Day” in central Wisconsin to honor drivers, and I even had the Governor proclaim “Truck Driver Appreciation Day” in Wisconsin. I have used my bachelor’s degree in Journalism to write about issues facing drivers, including dozens of letters to the editor of Wisconsin newspapers on behalf of the driving population. Now, my role is to be an advocate for all drivers, with the focus on women’s issues. I have served on ATA, SLPMC and WI Motor Carrier Boards as well as the DOT Advisory committee. I even attended CDL School just to understand the experience. Here is my biography: ELLEN VOIE BIOGRAPHY

2. What are the aspirations, you have for yourself, within the Trucking industry?

Ellen: Our mission (my mission) is to encourage women to look at careers in the trucking industry, not just as drivers, but as technical roles, safety positions, HR, recruiting, dispatching, and corporate leadership. We represent ALL members of the trucking industry, NOT JUST DRIVERS. Along with that, our goals is to remove obstacles that might keep women from succeeding. We are educating, mentoring, networking, interacting and assisting women who join our association, as well as those women who are already in the industry. Finally, we are celebrating the success of our members and highlighting the accomplishments of those who have quietly served.

3. If you could change only two things in the trucking industry, what would they be?

Ellen:First, I would like to see this industry work together to create change, not spend energy trying to undermine each other’s efforts.
Secondly, I would like to see a more female friendly environment for all women in the industry.

4. Do you consider yourself to be an advocate for ALL women in the industry?

Ellen: My goal is to represent all segments and to try to understand the changes that need to take place to provide a safe, healthy environment for all drivers, not just women .

5. What is your vision for women within the trucking industry?

Ellen:A better, safer environment that doesn’t make assumptions about anyone based on their gender.

6. Do you believe that allegations of sexual harassment should be handled any differently in the trucking industry than in other industries?

Ellen: Sexual harassment should be handled immediately and appropriately regardless of the environment. There are specific challenges that this industry faces that others don’t and that is regarding driver training. That is why I am working on a best practices white paper for carriers to use.

7. At what point did you become concerned with women being able to attain high profile positions of power in the board rooms of the trucking industry?

Ellen: In 1979, when I earned my diploma in Traffic & Transportation Management and was the only female traffic manager around. I endured a great deal of harassment when I worked in the steel fabricating plant to supervise the loading at the dock. I deflected it by standing firm and changing their behavior through interaction. As a traffic manager before deregulation, carriers used the same tariff rates and had to differentiate themselves on service. I was offered everything from drugs to dates with professional ball players. I threw the sales reps out. Heather, when I was 19 years old and walked through the plant, the welders constantly whistled, yelled and made negative comments about everything from my clothes to the way I walked. I told them that they were wimps who only used wire feed welders and then I showed them that I knew how to weld with a rod welder. I had to earn their respect. They never gave me a hard time again. I didn’t stand for it. I have spent my entire career in this industry. I had to prove that I was worthy of respect.

 

Admin*** Part 2 of Ellen Voie Q & A with Heather Rose will be published by March 3, 2010

Become a FAN on Facebook: REALWomenTruckers Follow us on Twitter @WomenTruckers

 

Additional Reading:

Gazette Online CRST Sexual Harassment Case Articles

CRST Sexual Harassment Case by @TruckerDesiree

Male on Male Sexual Harassment in Trucking

Same Sex Harassment Jury Award


Technorati Tags: ATA, CRST, DOT, Ellen Voie, Trucking, Women in Trucking

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109 Responses to “Ellen Voie answers Questions about CRST Sexual Harassment Case Part I”

  • I think this is awesome! Without even knowing Ms. Voie on a personal level, I can still ascertain that she is a level headed,
    and fair woman. And she is eminently qualified to be in the position she is. She is an extremely attractive woman, and she
    has been in this male dominated industry for years…she has had
    her share of harassment, and has come through the fires with aplomb.
    I commend you for using your intelligence and incredible writing
    skills to initiate a two-way dialogue.
    Looking forward to the next installment!
    NJKatwoman´s last blog ..Kitten pees in the ashtray! My ComLuv Profile

    • Thanks for the supportive response Christy!

      Now that you are back on the road you seem so happy. I’m looking forward to your video (when you get your camera back) of your hiring experience! I’m glad I was fortunate enough to be a part of it!

      God bless!!
      Marge/WIT

  • Woman Trucker:

    WOW…Ellen is a real piece of work, isn’t she? I personally have zero respect for her. She has way too much control and abuses her authority. That’s the industry. They claim to be for women in trucking but that is not the truth. They don’t like us here and they don’t want us here.
    You gals have real guts, I admire your integrity. You have taken on a monster. Ellen Voie likes to “dazzle the dudes” she can’t handle the real women out here so she focuses her attention on getting rid of us rather than helping us. That article, in “The Trucker” I don’t know if you read it but it was so manipulated and she had a huge hand in it. Why they went to her???? She’s in control!!! & she fears anyone that threatens to take it away from her. This is an evil industry. Only the strong survive.
    I’ve been driving going on 14 years, I’m not chicken-hearted, it’s just that I have had enough trouble surviving out here and I need to try to survive a little longer. It doesn’t get any easier out here the older you get. My hat is off to you Desiree and you have my full support in mind and spirit. Hang in there girl. Don’t surrender…I think that goes completely against your nature any darn way. Peace
    Here is the link to the “The Trucker” Article:
    http://www.thetrucker.com/News/Stories/2010/1/8/Driversundergoingmorephysicaltestingbeforegettinghiredrejected.aspx

    The part that was left out was that companies are encouraging Women to attend Orientation when they know they cannot lift that weight. There is more to this story and we won’t get to the bottom of it as long as Ellen Voie & WIT are representing Women Truckers.

  • When I first read this the name Tracy Hamm popped into my head every other paragraph.

    Tracy Hamm was the last female from the CRST Sexual Harassment case that still worked at the company at the time of the dismissal and not only has been following Ellen on Twitter for much longer thasn Ellen decided to follw her and everyone else back, but she also has quick access to her on Facebook.

    In a phone conversation a few days aago between Ellen Voie, Char Pingel, Marge Bailey and Myself I brought this to Ellen Voie’s attention.

    She said Tracy Hamm did not indicate she was harassed in the email exchanges but I said I would like to have Tracy included in the conversation.

    I called Tracy shortly afterwards and within moments, Ellen Voie contacted Tracy.

    Tracy told me she would be suprised if Ellen Voie stood by her remarks following their conversation.

    AN ADVOCATE does not make excuses for the defendant in a lawsuit.

    How would Johnny Cochran look if he always made OJ look Guilty?

    When you hire counsel or retain a lawyer you expect them to defend you no matter what, not take up for the other side.

    Esspecially when they have never bother to listen to your side at all.
    TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

    • Thanks Desiree, for your passion for drivers.

      I have asked you and Heather to help me understand the driver’s experience. I have talked to Tracy Hamm, who did originally tell me that she felt CRST is a good company and that she had not reported any harassment to them. She has elaborated on her experience and now she and I are working together to find more ways for carriers and drivers to avoid these situations in the future. That’s what Women In Trucking is here for, to help educate and find solutions.

      Thank you for all of the exposure you are providing for our association, it has encouraged additional support from drivers and carriers who believe in our mission. Our association has been growing and our influence in greater.

      Thanks,
      Ellen Voie
      President/CEO
      Women In Trucking, Inc.

      • Dear Ellen:

        No you have NEVER asked me or Heather to help you UNDERSTAND the drivers experience so that is a lie.
        That you have been quick to repackage everything I have exposed for your benefit despite your failed efforts to cover up and discredit my experience and that of others is very much TRUE.
        Tracy Hamm and I spoke within moments after our call and your email was received in that same time frame so it is amazing how you have had so much trouble finding a CRST Women who could educate you on this case and suddenly Voila’.

        I spoke to Tracy before and after you contacted her and frankly it has been a pattern that you take little initiative until your back is against a wall.

        Still, there are no guarantees that !. anyone can trust your word because you make many smiling promises and do not deliver, … at least to Women Truckers

        All the ideas in the world will not do anything if when you are given the opportunity to present them you continue to downplay the authenticity of the Women Truckers experiences.

        A policy does nothing if it is not enforced and due to the internal retaliation in the trucking industry for reporting any sort of misconduct, some sort of cross check or outside is nessessary.

        Much of the retaliation is conducted by other Industry Women.

        Not ALL Women but a few in power positions and this is a huge part of this problem.

        I spent this weekend at my terminal speaking to really cool Women who would love a better support and communication to help drivers…. Follow up is key.

        Denial and being quiet and attacking Women who are seeking help or assistance is not leadership.

        Tracy Hamm has a ton of good information because she had the trainer issues, she was a trainer herself and she has been in so many different experiences that she is a wealth of knowledge.

        Tracy Hamm loves her job.

        I love my job.

        Just because we both work at companies where a few bad apples does not make the whole basket bad.

        I love the people at my company but we work in a failed system.

        I am here today for a safety blitz and there were lots of hugs and smiles. People I have known here since day one and have seen me dodge many obstacles.

        I have met MANY CRST employees through this experience and you grow to love your home.

        You just see a lot of bad things going on and you want to make it better.

        Esspecially when people are being hurt who love trucking and have their dream snatch from them by some inept A-Hole.

        Why after 2 years is that so hard to understand?

        If you bill yourself as the answer…well we got questions
        TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

    • Desiree, what do you mean by ” hire counsel or a lawyer” in reference to Tracy & Ellen’s conversations? Ellen is neither her counsellor by hire or her attorney. And Tracy is not even a member of WIT. Shouldn’t you have made that statement more clear that its between Tracy & her attorney or should you have left off the statement entirely?

      • Dear Marge:

        You are misunderstanding what I am saying.

        If you are a Child Advocate that means you Advocate for the Child NOT the Parent.

        If you are a Women’s Advocate in the Trucking Industry you cannot at the same time be taken seriously if you Advocate for the Trucking Industry who is the Obstacle for the Women Truckers.

        Just as a Lawyer is supposed to defend their client.

        They cannot defend both Plaintiff and Defendant

        If you hire a criminal defense attorney they are to defend you as though you are innocent to fight your case.

        The objective is to WIN, that is how the legal profession works.

        That is how an Advocate works.

        You misinterpeted what I was saying.

        If you claim to be an Advocate you can’t make excuses or you will not be advocating for anything
        TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

        • Thanks for clearing that up. The way you verbalized your comments it led me to believe that you thought Tracy hired Ellen for consultation. Ellen is not for hire and neither is she an attorney. WIT has an advisory panel of experts now in place, each representing a segment of the industry, where women or men can go, on our forum. WIT is not a cure all and never will be but is ready to help with what we can do at this stage of our infancy. I recommend to everyone who has an issue to talk to OOIDA. They have been established long enough and were set up as an advocate for drivers and is what they do. Their mission can be reveiwed here: http://ooida.com/Who_We_Are/index.shtml

          You must understand….WIT IS NOT A DRIVER ADVOCACY ORGANIZATION. We ARE, according to our mission statement, set up to, at this time of our infancy, to educate and consult with women and men employees concerning their questions and issues and we stand ready to help carriers to better understand the needs of their employees.

          So with that explained, again, what is it you think WIT can do that would be within the boundaries of our mission?

          Marge Bailey
          WIT Board of Directors

          • OOIDA might sell themselves as a Driver Advocate but they are much too spread out to concentrate on any one topic effectively.

            Insurance seems to be what is behind them.

            OOIDA will gladly accept your membership but dues The stock answer “well, you can always quit” is no a solution after you accept membership fees from someone seeking assistance.

            I have watched them time and again not put forth the effort for a project, only to claim credit one it is a grass roots success.

            OOIDA has not ever to my knowledge addressed Women’s Trucking Issues and it is certainly not an issue for them. Even if it were, they could not make it a priority with the many topic they are spread out on.

            I joined OOIDA last year and I will not renew.

            Company Drivers , Student Drivers need representation because the cheap labor force is supported by people who are bright eyed and bushy tailed to work but know very little about the trucking industry.
            TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

          • Desiree you avoided answering my question. I didn’t need a disortation about OOIDA. I asked what do you think WIT can do about issues you want us to deal with that fit within the boundaries of our mission and why WIT was created?

            Marge

  • Ayah:

    If someone in her position could not find even 1 women who claimed to have been sexually harassed at CRST then she is not a leader in the trucking industry. She couldn’t find any, did not know of any, then it can’t be true right? WRONG. Common sense tells me she never tried. She knew enough to know about the alleged letter all CRST women drivers received but clueless to even 1 women claiming sexual harassment or rape?

    She can sugar coat it all she wants to her comments are a dead giveaway.She’s a company girl that would make a kick ass politician.

    • Thanks Ayah, I am not interested in politics, but I am interested in making this industry more driver friendly. I have been working hard to understand both sides of the story, I hope you will do the same.

      Ellen Voie
      President/CEO
      Women In Trucking, Inc.

      • Ayah:

        Perhaps you could define the “two sides” for me. You mean the companies and women truck drivers? So which side are you an advocate for?

        Respectfully,

        Ayah

        • Ayah Ellen is in the air right now on her way to Las Vegas to speak at the convention of the National Assoc. of Publicly Funded Truck Driving Schools. Her speech is targeting how truck driving schools can better understand the needs of their students. To learn more click this link:
          http://napftds.org/convention.html

          She will respond as soon as she gets a moment.
          Marge

    • First of all it is not Ellen’s job to ‘find’ victims. It is hers and the entire board of directors ‘job’ to take calls or online contacts as they come in ‘to us’. Ellen is not the only executive at WIT and the responsibilities she takes on are whatever the board of directors puts on her plate.

      Another thing I find most interesting is that Ayah and Woman Trucker, may not understand that the plaintiffs in a lawsuit may be under a gag order not to speak about their case until it’s over. If that is true and I am pretty well sure it is, then anyone involved with the suit who is under a gag order should not be talking to ANYONE. And that means ANYONE other than their attorney.

      • Ayah:

        “Finding” them is not the issue. It is intimidating: 1.The women who sued CRST were all lying. 2.Since they did seek Ellen out means they are not real. She should never have involved herself with CRST and defended them if she was not willing to “find out” what the truth is.

        As I understand CRST is/was a member of Ellen’s organization. They have serious allegations of allowing and tolerating sexual abuse towards WOMEN. I would be very interested in seeking out the truth if I was a leader for women in trucking.

        • Not knowing exactly who you are (you know exactly who we are by name and organization, we are being transparent unlike some people who post online), I find it weird that I even should be posting a reply to you as I have no clue who you really are. I am only doing so out of courtesy giving readers the correct information.

          What you or anyone else believes the truth is, well, I can’t control your perception of a situation, but please do not jump to conclusions about any statement that Ellen or anyone else makes unless you personally heard an entire interview (including what hit the edit floor) or phone call you were privvy to. Unless you hear something with your own ears you are taking a 3rd party’s word for it, which is heresey, then you post your skewed comments and opinions. Anything less than that has no credibility and is no more than vicious gossip. In other words, personally talk to all parties involved before you jump off into such matters and be verbal online or offline.

          Sheeeesh! Whatever happened to investigation reporting so the actual truth can be revealed? And why have you, Des, Donna, etc. made Ellen Voie the one who is responsible for anything you feel is an issue? I am blown away with your reactions and non-supported gossip. But one thing you are all doing that is positive is getting WIT & Ellen’s name out there big time and it has brought a lot of people into our world who are glad to participate in an organization that actually cares about them. For this we all thank you! Keep it up but at least be willing to get all sides of any issue you hear or read.

          I want to thank Heather Rose, who seems to be the only one who allows me or Ellen or any of our supporters, to post on a forum she runs. Thank you Heather Rose!!!!! You may be the most transparent of anyone who has followers on the net who are interested in trucking industry issues, who had the guts to contact Ellen for her response on issues of your concern. I respect that 150%! And thank you Desiree & Donna Smith for being willing to talk with us by phone. I hope what was said on everyone’s part in those convrsations was not misunderstood or misquoted. That would be terrible but at least you both came to the table of civil debate and for that we are appreciative.

          Marge Bailey
          WIT Board Member

          • Dear Marge:

            Ayah is well known and respected on Twitter. She is politically active and she has met Ellen Voie in person.

            Ayah is the Woman who took the photos of the US Xpress booth in Las Vegas which prompted the article by Jason Cox.

            It was after that I contacted Ellen Voie who wanted no part in bringing up the matter.

            The publicity that was spurred by Ayah was then utilized by Ellen and the US Xpress booth in Dallas was markedly different because of Ayah’s photo.

            I also sent a photo and along with Jason’s article it was circulated on Twitter.

            It was only after that event when Ellen forwarded that article to US Xpress and took credit for it for WIT.

            Ayah is a highly intelligent Woman and very respected.
            TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

        • Ayah:

          Correction: It is intimating: #1.The women who sued CRST were all lying. #2.Since they did NOT seek Ellen out means they are not real. She should never have involved herself with CRST and defended them if she was not willing to “find out” what the truth is.

          • Desiree, Ellen had been consulting with USX for over a year prior to the girls at their booth incident. My take on it is it took Ellen, Ayah’s photo and your input to bring about this change. This is a classic example of what can happen when we are all on the same page! Let’s all celebrate this success and not be so concerned who should get the credit!

            Marge Bailey
            WIT Board of Director

      • Jim:

        Marge Bailey, you are one of the most double talking pieces of work I have ever seen. Not the only “executive” at W.I.T. now that’s funny right there. You come off to be a “mega” corporation whose real mission is to only promote yourselves and leave women truckers out in the cold when it come to “real” issues you “Executives” want to avoid. Talk about a turncoat organization who refuses to believe these women when they tell you they need some support, you and Ellen turn your backs on them and tell them they “brought it on themselves”.
        W.I.T. should be Why are you In Trucking? I really don’t understand the purpose of your organization if not to help all women in trucking. Is it just to help the poor secretary or junior executive in an office situation? Yes, that is much easier to moderate huh? Just leave all of those women who choose to be “drivers” to fend for themselves and don’t dare get on “their” side. People might get the impression that you might actually “care” about women in trucking.
        Get a life and get a damn clue. As far as I am concerned you and your organization are about as useless as (edited by Admin)

        Jim

  • Ellen specifically asked Heather Rose & Desiree to give her names of women or even just one woman who was sexually harrassed or actually raped while at CRST and she would do a follow up. So far Heather has not answered that and Desiree said Tracy Hamm, who Ellen has been in contact with for weeks. Ellen told me and Desiree that Tracy stated to her CRST was a good company and that she did not report any incident of sexual harrassment to CRST (prior to Tracy jumping in the lawsuit).

    When you or anyone else implies Ellen is covering up for any company on an issue, get your facts straight first!

    Anyone reporting on an issue with what they feel is a fact should talk to eveyrone involved with the issue including the company being accused. That’s what Ellen does, why should everyone else not be held to that same standard? I mean I’m just sayin!

    Marge

    • Ayah:

      “Covering up” or choosing to negate women by not investigating allegations made against CRST before bringing CRST into her fold, call it what you will. Either CRST is a member of her organization or they are not. Aren’t they?

      • Thank you Ayah, that is a good question….

        Yes CRST is a member of WIT. They have always to our knowledge had in place proper protocol to address harrassment and egregious treatment of any employee and furthermore they are in the process of beefing it up to be even a more higher standard of compliance.

        In my opinion when a company treats these matters as high priority, they are doing exactly what they should be doing.

        It does bother me that people feel that their employer is totally responsible for criminal acts on the part of any employee. I beg the question shouldn’t it be viewed as a police matter? Now if a company knowingly teams up a convicted employee with someone and something bad goes down, yes, I do believe they bear some responsibility. But again, this must be proven in a court of law. All persons are innocent until proven guilty. Keep in mind that WIT is not a regulatory agency nor do we police the trucking industry.

        This commentary is my opinion and not necessarily does my opinion relect WIT’s board of directors or Ellen.

        Thank you for giving me the opportunity to express my opinion.

        Marge Bailey
        WIT board of Directors Member

        • Ayah:

          My husband went through CRST Trucking school over a year ago. Their whole operation is set up to promote the exploitation of student drivers. Once you go through the school you become an indentured servant to CRST until the school bill is paid. If you suffer any kind of harassment there are few options. If you are a woman you may have to wait a long time for a female trainer. They give you a list of drivers/trainers and it is your responsibility to hook up with a complete stranger.

          It was a nightmare means to an end for us.

          There is no walking away from CRST or you will walk away jobless but now thousands of dollars in debt.

        • Ayah:

          Marge said; “They [CRST] have always to our knowledge had in place proper protocol to address harrassment and egregious treatment of any employee.” You also said; “First of all it is not Ellen’s job to ‘find’ victims”.

          So it’s no ones responsibility to “find” or look into sexual harassment allegations yet to your knowledge CRST is a safe trucking school for women.

          I’m afraid if I were to read a transcript of Ellen talking to “National Assoc. of Publicly Funded Truck Driving Schools” blood would shoot out of my eyes. She can’t possibly be taken seriously since she is talking to her corporate sponsers and members.

          Taxpayer money has padded the pocket of these trucker school rackets for far too long.

          • Ayah I appreciate your feedback. However skewed your understanding of what I said is, it’s good to debate it in a healthy way.

            Though you have totally misunderstood what I said, I don’t know any other way to state what I said in a way that would reach your level of understanding. I worked with CRST for 5 yrs as their job advertiser and job display consultant. I NEVER received a single call of complaint from a woman or a man concerning CRST. Not one! The management there at the time had an open door policy with their employees. To my understanding they still do. Keep in mind I have frist hand knowledge from the jobs’ side of the desk. In other words I was on the front lines.

            No company in their right mind would intentionally open themselves up to possible law suits nor do they wish harm come to any single person on their payroll. So to make arbitrary accusations that a company willfully does not try to look after their employees as much as is humanly possible is ludicrous. I’m not saying you have said that but there are many who make those type of accusations.

            Please read my responses on this forum to Desiree about WIT’s mission and you’ll see it explained in terms that I hope everyone can realize what it is that we can do or not do. It makes everything, a bit easier to uderstand why Ellen responds the way she does in some instances.

            We are all part of a big family. Each of us has our place and calling in this big family. United we will stand, divided we are sure to fail.

            This statement begs the question: “Why can’t we just all get along??”

            God bless,
            Marge Bailey
            WIT Board Member

    • Randy:

      Marge,

      I agree and it would have been nice for Ellen have also checked with some of the individuals involved since she did make the effort to contact CRST. You’re correct, everyone involved should have been included. Names of many that filed the original discrimination claims with the EEOC have been readily available for some time on the Web.

      • Randy can you post the link here on this forum where the plaintiffs are listed?

        • Randy:

          Good Evening Marge,

          Many of the plaintiffs are listed in Judge Reade’s dismissal order issued in August of 2009 relating to the final 67 plaintiffs.

          http://www.simmonsperrine.com/docs/dismissal.order.pdf

          This order also has an excellent summary of the suit filed by the EEOC from the original complaint of Monica Starke, CRST’s responses, and the EEOC’s mishandling of the investigation.

          Please keep in mind that the suit was not dismissed because there was no merit in the claims of any of the plaintiffs, it was dismissed due to procedural errors committed by the EEOC. Much of the media publicity of this dismissal spins it the opposite way. Unfortunately, the EEOC’s actions have left where much of the truth will never be known, both on the plaintiff’s part as well as that of CRST.

          • Thanks Randy for the intelligent commentary and the link. I will read through it and better educate myself on the facts of the case.

            It’s been an all nighter for me so I need to shut down and try to get a couple of hours sleep before I have to start up my day this morning.

            God Bless,
            Marge/WIT

    • Dear Marge:

      Tracy did not jump in the lawsuit. She filed a claim years ago but no one ever called her.

      It was only after many claims began appearing that the EEOC started looking to see if this was a pattern and they located Tracy Hamm.

      The things you are stating here are not factual.

      I have been in touch with the federal prosecutors in the CRST case since last year as well as others close to this case.

      You are making many mis-statements of fact.
      TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

      • I am loving this openess between us Desiree! This is going in the right direction, something I’ve been wanting to see for over a year now! I will check with my sources again and see if it matches up with the info you posted.

        If you are right, and certainly may be, I will post my error or if something is skewed in your remarks (told to you in error) I will post the correction with my source defined.

        Marge Bailey
        Member of WIT Board of Directors

        • Thank You Marge,
          I am loving this myself…. Thsi is very good to iron this out. I spoke to Tracy tonight and she is driving. She will post hopefully tomorrow.

          I read her many of the comments over the phone but not all of them. Her events are not at all as have been depicted and there are others with varying circumstances.

          The ladies who could afford lawyers did settle, the rest had only the EEOC who did not understand that this was an industry wide problem and were not prepared to handle it properly.

          Also, one tactic that is common is to pacify the person making the claim. It is very common to be told there is no statute of limitations to file a suit which in fact there is.

          As a Truck Driver, time slips away and you let things go because you have to work. If you are told something is being done, you give the benefit of the doubt.

          One Month, 2 Months 6 Months … nothing…. it’s a stall, you don’t want to pursue but if the stuff keeps going on…

          I am being vague because there are number of reported things that don’t fall inot a “One Size Fits All” case.

          Bottom Line is, the repeated stall tactic while telling the Women their is no statute of limitations difuses the urgency…. I see lots of delays because of this.

          The Women I have met want to drive not sue. They just want to do their job and be left alone.

          Even in the cases where the bulk were dismissed it’s worth it to hear a pattern.

          We all have a lot to learn about how we send students out with trainers and what they should and should not expect.

          I think we all have some responsibility to explore this more.

          Even post CRST Case there are a few Women experiencing problems and I hoping they will post here shortly.
          TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

      • Yes we all appreciate what Donna C. and everyone else has and is doing to help the Arrow drivers. Several WIT members jumped in including myself (help with getting them hired right away) and various other groups and individals who we may never know their names and will remain unsung heroes. Companies like Schneider (WIT member), Freightliner and Kenworth, Swift, Hoffmeier Inc, Navistar (WIT member) and the list goes on from small companies to large, all have been a blessing.

        See video:
        http://www.newson6.com/Global/category.asp?C=121535&clipId=4407569&autostart=true

        Thanks to OOIDA for setting up the FaceBook page that helped so very many. http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=11720654

        Donna Creekmoore’s video:
        http://www.newson6.com/Global/category.asp?C=121535&clipId=4407569&autostart=true

        Thank you all!

        God bless,
        Marge

        • Dear Marge:

          The Arrow situation had a hidden story that has yet to be told.

          OOIDA did indeed set up a Fan Page and in hopes everyone was working together and letting bygones be bygones we circulated that fan page link endlessly and literally drove cattle into a pen for OOIDA.

          I was sick during those days in bed and I watched as my followers and that of other who are nowhere even remotely involved with trucking “ReTweeted” that Arrow Fan Page like crazy over the holidays to help the Arrow drivers.

          There were more offers for help than drivers in those first days but no one was matching up or organizing the help. Many people who wanted to help were never called for follow up. No one was verifying drivers and connecting them to the assitance.

          There were rumors flying and as the numbers grew on the volunteer fan page there was little management, of course it was Christmas so OOIDA had gone home for the holiday while Twitter was a BUZZing 24/7 and the thing took on a life of it’s own. I understand they were monitoring the page but the enormous activity grew to difficult to organize on a part time basis.

          I receieved a call from Dan Rather Producers about finding out more on the Arrow Situation. I know Norita Taylor from OOIDA had called them.

          There was a storm the night the story began and it was impossible to get a plane to land in Oklahoma.

          The activity on Twitter and Facebook was astounding but there were two tags suspiciously quiet.

          The ATA & Women in Trucking.

          Christy @NJKatwoman was quite active @Red46 a retired Woman Trucker in her 60′s and it was Christy who said she knew Ellen was online and told me she emailed Ellen who was aware of the situation but did not show support.

          Social Media was instrumental in the Arrow Situation. The court of Public Opinion refused to let what has been swept under the carpet in the past go unnoticed NOT the Trucking Industry on it’s own.
          If offers had been made for assistance, collecting on them in those crucial days when people had no fuel was near impossible because it was Christmas so no one was around to help them

          As Arrow employees were able to get to computers they set up their own page and began work to save their own and “Discovered” the OOIDA fan page and the enormous outpouring of pledges for assistance.

          The EX-Arrow Employees and then Arrow Volunteer Efforts page utilized the OOIDA page to network assistance to VERIFIED Arrow Drivers.

          Due to the holidays and the Non-Profit status of OOIDA it would have been impossible for them to connect the help to the needy on the scale that the Arrow Project required. They also did not have the ability to verify Arrow Drivers as Dana & Donna did. It was chaotic to say the least.

          Dana Stanley is not of the trucking industry but is a dynamic person who took the initiative to begin networking and connecting individual drivers to help and verifying them with Donna Creekmore and others who actually worked for Arrow.

          The scammers came out of the woodwork to both claim they needed assistance and some to say they were providing assistance. Many just wanted to plug their name.

          Then there were those organizations who came in WAY after the fact to help and wrote BIG articles about how they had SAVED they DAY for ARROW.

          This was all while Dana, Donna and their tribe of volunteers were still accounting for drivers. Many people worked diligently in the days when most were home enjoying the holidays. There are an aray of amazing stories.

          Truck Star Radio welcomed them nightly and this 24/7 operation to spread the news traveled through Social Media.

          By reaching google the Arrow story began to be picked up by newspapers and small news channels. This internet chatter made it IMPOSSIBLE for the trucking industry to ignore.

          I was contacted by an OOIDA member on the December 23rd to post comment to quell the rumor mill on Social Media sites and I did so.

          I was included in a BCC of participants and other very active Twitter persons who are not in trucking contacted me to ask how they could get involved when they became very disturbed that a company would treat it’s drivers in this manner and the industry was saying nothing.

          Had 800-1000 workers been laid off from a factory days before Christmas would have been national news but because they were truckers they got little media attention.

          Social Media did not permit this story to go away and it FORCED many to get involved but many did it only on the surface or as a token gesture.

          STILL, it did bring many more together and that is something to be very proud of.

          Trucking Issues are benefitting from Social Media because the forgotten trucker now has a voice outside the cab.

          I am told that Donna & Dana went on to recover abandoned trailers.

          This Arrow story brought a lot of people together and carved out a definition of who is in their fighting for good and who is in their for a plug
          TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

          • Dear Desiree,

            Ellen and I both participated on the Facebook page, I offered help for those drivers in a 50 mile radius to come pick them up to spend the night in one of my apartments or get them a bus ticket home. I was willing to do that on my own and out of my own pocket. I only reveal this now as I felt I had to reply to your comments that WIT was unseen in all this. It’s not about taking credit or wanting the spotlight for being a good Samaritan; it should be about taking care of our own without seeking praise for it.

            Many of us worked behind the scenes to do all we could to get help for stranded drivers. Ellen contacted Schneider, one of our corporate members, about the couple stranded in (I believe) Texas. Schneider got them home and even offered them a job. From what I understand they spent almost a grand in their efforts to help them. As I said in the above post, Schneider was one of many carriers, small to large, that jumped right into helping every Arrow driver possible. They didn’t have to be pushed to help, they did it out of their concern for members of our trucking community. To try and read anything bad into it is doing those carriers a real injustice.

            Thanks goes out to everyone, noncorporate and corporate, who gave their assistance and still do. It warms my heart to know when the chips are down, our people step up! Even non-trucking people stepped up. God bless you all!

      • I do feel for Jane Trucker. It isn’t clear whether or not physical harm was part of it, but it sounds just awful. I’m stunned that her husband told her to remain in that situation.

        Drivers, NOTHING, not even a job, is worth YOUR SAFETY & EMOTIONAL HEALTH being compromised!

        Report abuse until your lips fall off if that’s what it takes to get in touch with someone who will take action. If it’s physical abuse and/or rape then the obvious thing to do is call 911, make a police report and get to a hospital…but FIRST get out of that truck IMMEDIATELY if at all possible!

        Here’s the deal…
        By taking a step as serious as getting off the truck you’ve proven there is a big problem. It’s not worth keeping yourself in a situation that could lead to physical abuse or harassment of any kind that makes you feel uncomfortable. NO JOB is worth that! Which is better? Losing a job or possibly live through an experience that could be much worse? My money is on the obvious solution.

        Once you’re off the truck, call whomever you need to but GET OFF THE TRUCK! Getting off at the next truck stop would be best if you can wait that long. DON’T TELL YOUR ABUSER WHAT YOU PLAN TO DO!! There will be people at the truck stop in charge that will help you. Don’t jump into a truck with a complete stranger, male or female, who might offer to give you a ride! And if you have no one you can call at the time, CALL ME at 989.892.8433. I’ll do what I can to help. I always have.

        I’m going to relate this real life story as best as my memory will allow:

        I got a call from a female newbie back in the early 2000′s that she was about to graduate CDL school and wanted to train with an O/O. I recommended a guy I had just met at a FedEx Expedite conference in Chicago. He had told me he was looking for someone to train and then work as a co-driver for him on his truck. He seemed like a good guy and his credentials with the company were impeccable. He signed on with my job ad service and I felt ok about posting his ad.

        The woman said she met with him on three or four occasions (at my suggestion) until she felt comfortable enough with him to finish her training and it would hopefully lead to a team driver job for her. After a week or so out with him she called me about 1 am one morning crying and shaking. She said he got her a motel room and unknown to her he had a key to it. He slipped into her room while she was in the shower. Frightened out of her wits by his presence as she came out of the bathroom, she reached for her night shirt and made a dash for the door. He stopped her and she got out of his grip only to have him chasing her around the bed. Once she had me on the phone I could hear him in the background yelling at her and he sounded drunk. She confirmed he was so drunk he couldn’t overpower her any longer. Thank God he didn’t rape her but she was convinced had he been able, he would have. I had her put him on the phone, told her to get out of that room and go to the front desk and I finally convinced him to let her go to the truck and get her things. I got her home.

        Later the woman told me she did cut up with him and let him put his arm around her shoulders going into truck stops a few times. She learned a valuable lesson from that night. TRUST NO ONE! Always be on your toes and never, ever flirt or allow touching, of any sort! It sends to some people the wrong message. Was it her fault? Probably not, but she learned early on not to be too friendly, especially with her boss and someone she knew for only a week or two! Her story had a safe ending but some others may not be so lucky.

        I would like to see women like Momma Donna, Donna Smith and a few others who are qualified take distress calls too. Or maybe you gals already do. If so let’s get the word out to the inexperienced women on how to reach you. I’ll be more than glad to post your numbers on my web sites.

        You know we who are more experienced and have been in the trenches for many years need to take solving issues seriously enough that we get into it with both feet, not just post words on a blog. I see many of you doing what you can to be pro-active and that is encouraging. What is discouraging is when things get muddied up with gossip. I feel we are heading in the rght direction now and I am thankful we are. It’s about time!

        Marge/WIT

        • admin:

          Dear Marge:

          Thank you for sharing that story. Here is where we get into the meat of the problem.

          We cannot speculate or “Monday Morning Quarterback” what shouldv’e, couldv’e, wouldv’e… why this, why that… this happened and we have to see how we can make a way for this to stop happening.

          This story is frequently the same and so the value of Jane Trucker coming forward helps us take her painful memory and try to correct the situation.

          1. How we can fix it so this person is not roaming around training women either at the same compnay or somewhere else?

          2. What assistance could have helped to make Jane feel confident about escaping the situation?

          3. Attacking the Victim for reporting the uncomfortable topic makes us an accomplice to the next victim attack.

          Jane is doing us a favor by helping us see how this predator operated.

          You truly never know anyone.

          When you instill doubt in someones mind this is a very powerful tool to keep people silent and make them second guess what is true and what is false.

          In this sort of trauma and out side neutral TRAINED person should hear out all parties.

          When you have nothing and no where to go , no one is looking for you …. this is where predators play.

          Where will you run? Where will you go?

          As a Student Trucker you are given so much information overload at Orientation and even if you went to the same school as Ellen did, I guarentee when you get behind the wheel and start driving there is nothing that will prepare you.

          You just do it or you crack.

          Not just for 10 minutes or two hours but for many many hours, day after day.

          Add your log book and living out of a bag in a strange environment … you can’t even think straight.

          There is little if any communication to the company. The trainer in some cases may not have even told the student how to use the Qualcomm.

          At this time there is very little internal support and the companies who SAY they have a policy of enforcement still have multiple issues.

          I know of two recent CRST grads who had similar experiences to the Women who hare incolved in the harassment case.

          While on the surface it seems like something might have changed, the truth is that there are predators still training students.

          Some of these trainers are highly regarded in their companies, accepting awards & being treated like they are beyond reproach.

          Student Truckers arrive at these companies with an expectation they will be kept SAFE during their training.

          When these incidents occur the situation is uncomfortable to discuss, esspecially with a stranger on the phone who may be the attacker’s friend or have longtime relationship with.

          It is more common than the students realize but they are led to believe they are “the only one” in an isolated incident that “They brought on themselves”

          This is why more training is required for BOTH Students and Trainers on conduct with some sort of outside entity as a backup resource.

          Having Students calling you when you can help calm them down is one thing but that trainer just goes back to the orientation center to gather up their next student.

          Then what?

          He’s in the company newsletter as employee of the year?

          Maybe Jane and her Husband don’t have much and really can’t afford to lose this job and go to another company.

          Maybe the highly regarded trainer has made it abundantly clear to Jane that “no one will EVER believe her and her trucking carreer will be over before it has started”

          It’s easy to say “A job is not that important” unless you don’t have one, and you don’t have a home or a place to go.
          You start telling yourself that maybe you are mistaken, maybe you are imagining it. this is not really happening.

          Often, what has happened does not sink in until later and you begin to rage inside.

          You rage at yourself also because you know what others will say about what you should have done. So you remain silent.

          Silence is not a solution. Serving in Silence when you have been violated only makes you an accomplice to another crime against someone else.

          That makes you feel worse. Telling people to go to another company is not a solution with the amount of false DAC reporting that is occuring.

          Many Women receive poor training as a result of these situations and because they want to continue trucking they go off on their own and do not seek out further assistance.

          Once they get the keys to their own truck they just wing it out on the road.

          Thankfully, Jane had her Husband to turn to.

          I have heard of many married Women who have had similar situations and it catches them so off guard they are stunned into a shock.

          We have an obligation now to fix this problem now that we have it on the table.

          What environment could we create so that no other Jane has to experience that situation?

        • Jane Driver:

          (Admin Edit***) I never said that my husband told me to stay in that situation! There you go again! You Have no clue so SCREW YOU and your F’d up organization. I DID NOTHING WRONG!! DO YOU GET IT?? STOP BLAMING THE VICTIMS! STOP LYING! STOP MAKING EXCUSES! YOU ARE MAKING THINGS WORSE FOR ME AND ALL OTHER VICTIMS OUT THERE. YOU, YES YOU are victimizing us all over and over and over. SHAME ON YOU!!! SHAME SHAME SHAME SHAME

          • Jane, the excerpt below is from YOUR post that shows up lower on tis page: YOUR words, NOT mine:

            “This man constantly humiliated me in public and private and at one point I actually thaught about jumping out of the truck while it was moving. THE ONLY THING STOPPING ME WAS MY HUSBAND. You see, he too was in training and counting on me so we could team, So, I sucked it up, held it in and accepted the fact that the trucking industry is a man’s world and I just needed to accept it. So, that’s what I have done for the past ten years. I have met other women through the years with similar experiences.”

            Please reply back with an apology!
            Thank you1
            Marge

          • admin:

            I believe Marge that you are reading way too much from “Jane” short introduction of events. The way you are handling this is very unprofessional but I am moderating all comments because the observers of this post need to view what is trulry occuring to Women who report abuse in this industry.

            This is part of the problem

          • I read and re-read Jane Trucker’s post several times. I may have misunderstood what she meant by saying her husband kept her from quitting and she said “so I sucked it up” and she stayed in the truck with that guy in what she described was a horrible situation so much so that she felt like jumping out of the window of a moving truck. After reading that part over and over the only message I get from it was her husband wanted her to finish out the training even though she made it crystal clear to him that she was under harrassment and obviously very unhappy with the situation. That he had her to stay is what stunned me.

            I have been so broke I could not buy a cup of coffee so I totally understand the need to have a job, but I would never consider becoming a victim of harrassment in order to keep a job. But! I haven’t walked in their shoes so I am not standing in judgement of their decision. All my comment meant is I don’t understand the decision they made. In my 62 years on this earth I have always had at least one option I could take that would remove me from a bad situation. I have found that when one door closes, a new one opens.

          • Dana Stanley:

            Marge,

            I find it hard to believe that you have now ‘read and reread’ the post by Jane Driver, and here are 2 reasons why….

            1. To have read the post at least 3 times by your own admission, you should at the very least be able to recite the correct posted name of the writer.

            2. You should have seen the statement ‘So, I sucked it up, held it in’. — MAINLY THE “HELD IT IN” PART — at least 3 times.

            Is it pure coincidence that out of all the posts here you chose the only story posted to do this to? I am trying very hard to understand your intentions. What is your reason for trying to detract from the message given in her original post?

            Dana Stanley

          • admin:

            (Note from Admin***)
            I am leaving Jan’e comment “as is” because this is an example of why the trucking industry Women needs to get down on the ground & realize they have no business judging what “Jane” should have done.
            Until you have been in the situation you have absolutly NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER to jugde another.
            It’s easy to say what YOU would do but until have been in that situation you do not know.
            Marge, as a Director for WIT your statements are extremely brash to someone have experienced a trauma and you should expect them to lash out. In fact maybe even worse if you were in public. This is a perfect example of how WIT needs to learn and how the Trucking Industry needs to learn.

            Judging a victim is completely irresponsible. When this occurs between Student and HR Rep. or Dispatcher you could count on Jane being singled out, retailated against and starved out. Possible her DAC ruined and in effect, blackballed from industry.

            That’s why Women remain silent.

            Is this what WIT means when Ellen said earlier that WIT celebrates those who ‘Serve in Silence”"?

          • admin:
            March 3, 2010 at 2:12 am
            (Note from Admin***)
            I am leaving Jan’e comment “as is” because this is an example of why the trucking industry Women needs to get down on the ground & realize they have no business judging what “Jane” should have done.
            Until you have been in the situation you have absolutly NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER to jugde another.
            It’s easy to say what YOU would do but until have been in that situation you do not know.
            Marge, as a Director for WIT your statements are extremely brash to someone have experienced a trauma and you should expect them to lash out. In fact maybe even worse if you were in public. This is a perfect example of how WIT needs to learn and how the Trucking Industry needs to learn.

            Judging a victim is completely irresponsible. When this occurs between Student and HR Rep. or Dispatcher you could count on Jane being singled out, retailated against and starved out. Possible her DAC ruined and in effect, blackballed from
            ============================================================
            Instruction or advice I give on the radio, in a publication or in person as one on one IS NOT JUDGING. It’s absurd to think I was and I am very offended by you implying I was.

          • angie:

            Hi Jane my name is Angie and i have read your comment to Marge and also the comment that you wrote about staying in the truck with that trainer because you wanted to run team with your husband, am i reading your comment correctly???? you made the choice to stay with that trainer.. you made that choice…maybe because you did not realize there were places to ask for help. i dont know…. i realize that 10 years ago things were different back then i have been out here since 1981 i have seen the changes, there were not alot of us woman truckers out here then like there are now.. but now woman can make the choice to get out of the truck.. Jane i honestly feel for you and the situation that you went thru but please dont talk to Marge like that, she is an amazing person that cares about this industry and would do anything to help with any kind of abuse our here male or female.. please dont judge her like that…

  • And BTW, “Woman Trucker”, the first responder here, should reveal who he or she is. Posting something anonymously holds no credibility and makes it look like it could be posted by someone other than a person with a brain.

    • Dear Marge:

      “Woman Trucker” has recently been through a trauma but most of us know who she is.

      There are many veteran Women Truckers on Facebook as well as Twitter.

      Due to the reatliation in Trucking which currently exists.
      AND the Cyber Stalking from WIT members that occured to me from 2008 to 2009 this site was meant to be open.

      This particular Woman got in touch through word of Mouth after seeing Dan Rather Broadcasts.

      She needs to work and cannot jepordize her name being public.

      Frankly, many Women who witnessed the conduct by WIT toward me for seeking help are unsure if they can trust anyone from WIT with their information.
      TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

      • Jane Driver:

        Marge, you have made too many assumptions. I never said my husband MADE me do anything nor did I say that I made it crystal clear to him what was going on. Those are your words not mine. You constantly twist and turn and again put the blame on the victim. I did say that I had complained to my FEMALE dispatcher and some higher ups in the company. I did say that i complained to my husband however he was in a situation where his trainer stayed in the bunk all the time and I didn’t go into details with him because that may have effected his driving and possibly caused harm. I begged to be be let off the truck, I was told if I got off the truck I would be terminated and therfor stranded. My dispatcher said that they would find me another trainer as soon as they could. What they should have done is allowed me to get off the truck immediately and made arragements for another trainer to pick me up or put me on a bus back to a terminal to wait for another trainer there as they had done that many times for men who were in situations where they didn’t feel safe because of racism of drug and alcohol abuse by their trainer. But my situation was just “sexual” and they didn’t see any harm in that. When my husband finally heard the whole story and had four other drivers tell the both of us that they too had the same problem with the same trainer, we high tailed it to cedar rapids and were basically laughed at. We then had to see this perverts name in newsletters for being recognized for a safety awards. I don’t owe you or anybody else anymore explainations for my actions. Bottom line is I was a victim of Sexual harrasment and abuse in an extreme way and no one including you could care less and you have made that obvious. You are a disgrace and I never want to meet you or talk to you because it would be an emarrasement to me to have to admit to consorting with a person such as yourself.

    • Thanks Des for clearing that up.

      I apologise.

    • Dana Stanley:

      Marge,

      You wrote: “I do feel for Jane Trucker. It isn’t clear whether or not physical harm was part of it, but it sounds just awful. I’m stunned that her husband told her to remain in that situation.”

      When the woman responded to you, obviously upset, you replied with :

      Jane, the excerpt below is from YOUR post that shows up lower on tis page: YOUR words, NOT mine:

      (((post removed by me – you can read full post above)))

      Please reply back with an apology!
      Thank you1
      Marge

      you were referring to this, a portion of the post written by Jane Driver:
      __________________________________________
      THE ONLY THING STOPPING ME WAS MY HUSBAND. You see, he too was in training and counting on me so we could team, So, I sucked it up, held it in and accepted the fact that the trucking industry is a man’s world and I just needed to accept it.
      __________________________________________

      Nowhere in this post do I see where this woman’s husband told her to remain in this situation. I read it as her not telling her husband that there was a problem – because she had to complete her part of their plan. I read it as her not wanting to ‘let her husband down’. Am I the only one that is reading it this way?

      Regardless, I am shocked that someone in a professional position who also claims to care and help when asked (on a personal level), would respond in the way you did. Your post has a particularly venomous tone, right down to the incorrect name.

      What I see in your second post is you intentionally disregarding someone who was victimized without any regard to her feelings or her situation.

      Is it out of habit that you go out of your way to try and distort this woman’s story? Could this be the reason that so many feel WIT is part of the problem?

      Dana Stanley

  • Donna Creekmore:

    Good afternoon ladies, I have been in this industry for over 32 years, 25 of those years OTR, 7 in house in various departments from recruiting, to safety, to DM and assistant to VP of operations. I have seen and lived both sides.
    Judging from the tone of the responses there is alot of animosity out there, and the remaining installments of this article will prove to be very interesting.
    I am reserving taking sides so to speak until the full article is published and both sides have had their say. I hope both sides respond with courtesy and professionalism so the truth will show through. Nothing detracts more from the matter at heart then back biting and mud slinging.

    This article seems to touch on several major issues in the trucking industry, one of the largest being sexual harassment in training situations, at Arrow and at Freymiller we did not put women with men, not because of harassment, but out of common sense,and respect.

    As I stated earlier, I have been in this industry a long time, not much I havent seen or been a party too. But I wouldnt change my career choice for anyone.

    Looking forward to reading the remaining installments and responses, then I’ll throw my two cents in again.
    Be safe out there folks.
    Donna

  • Ayah:

    In January of 2009 CRST was a corporate member http://womenintrucking.org/news/WITNEWS12.pdf

  • Ayah:

    Here we have CRST being promoted and is a CURRENT corporate sponser of Ellen Voie’s organization. http://womenintrucking.org/corporate-members.cfm

    If her supporters don’t have a problem with it fine, live and let live. But why throw out excuses? At least be honest and say “I believe and promote CRST as a safe legitimate truck driving school for all women and do not believe the women who accused CRST of sexual harassment.

    Ellen said “We could create a better environment if we used our energy for positive change instead of devouring our advocates”. That’s kinda where I’m at, just wondering who you advocate for. The evidence heavily suggests CRST i.e. the companies over the drivers.

    Respectively,

    Ayah

  • Randy:

    The conclusion in this case was dismissal based primarily on the manner in which the EEOC prosecuted the case. There was no judgment made that no incident of discrimination or sexual harassment did not occur. Judge Reade herself made the statement in the dismissal that “…dozens of potentially meritorious sexual harassment claims may never now see the inside of a courtroom”. To assume that there were no valid complaints of sexual harassment based on this ruling would be making a great assumption.

    http://www.simmonsperrine.com/docs/dismissal.order.pdf

  • I would like to make a few points but let me start by saying this. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that the real point of this post is to make sure that we are all in agreement that there needs to be a safer environment for ALL trainees graduating from CDL school and for co-drivers. Are we all in agreement with that?

    Next, we have to agree on the fact that THERE IS harassment going on involving the trainees and co-drivers and that something needs to be done about it. Agreed?

    Finally, companies do attempt and succeed in dismissing and/or covering up complaints by those who bring up grievances about their trainer or co-driver. ( The recent story in the news about the one driver that killed his co-driver. He had been complaining for quite awhile before the fatal incident happened) AGREED?

    With that being said, I believe the discrepancy that I’m reading here involves some doubt towards WIT as far as their sincerity to help women who are presently in or have been in an abusive or dangerous trainee or co driver situation. This appears to be the tone here, so let’s resolve it once and for all.

    I want to first address the issue of those who wish to be anonymous. I myself understand why they choose this avenue, but for those who don’t understand, I will explain
    Allen and I have realized that although women will call up and tell you their story and experience, they become reluctant to have their names shared for fear of company retaliation or industry black balling. I have recently spoken with a 20 year veteran female driver who has had that happen to her. For those who don’t understand what company retaliation is, just look at what the DAC report has done to drivers.

    Example of FEAR: Our Blog Talk Radio show we did about a year ago addressed the CRST situation and the general problem of sexual harassment and abuse. (the show is in our archives and if the Admin wants to post the link they can)
    We had a LIST of women who were suppose to be on the show. We went over their experiences and told them they didn’t have to tell their names or the company they worked for. At the last minute these women declined to be on the show because THEY WERE AFRAID of what would happen to them. Some were afraid that their voices would be recognized and that either the company or other drivers would retaliate against them. Another said her husband didn’t want her being on the show because she had been through too much already.

    I have not spoken with “WomanTrucker” on this thread, but I do know of her situation and understand why she has chosen to be anonymous. I agree with her choice.

    I have also spoken with Tracey and have heard her story also. She is careful what she says and to whom she says it to. I understand her choices also.

    The biggest problem I see, and what has caused this entire conflict between WIT and RWIT, is that more woman are now coming “out of the closet” with their trainee/ co driver harassment experiences. Again, from what I can determine, this recent exposure of harassment and abuse has caused a tremendous conflict for WIT and the position they play.

    Conflict: The people WIT represents, “Women in Trucking”, and the fact that most of the sponsors of WIT are trucking companies, creates tension and disagreement when it comes to the issue of harassment and abuse of drivers. It reminds me of a scripture:

    New International Version (©1984) Matthew 6:24
    “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other …
    I do not envy this position to be in. Here you find yourself, the CEO and founder of an Organization, heavily funded by those who you find out later could be responsible for the harm of those you are standing for and representing. So what do you do?
    This has put a major kink in the goal and mission statement. However, I see resolve and hope in the future.

    When WIT first began, the issues of women being harassed were not exposed yet, at least not in the proportion that they are now. From what I can determine, it wasn’t until Desiree’s Student Trucker story and the people who then began posting on that Thread of “A Day in the Life of a Lady Trucker” (about her story,) AND THEN the CRST sexual harassment exposure, everything started hitting the fan.

    Allen and I had also been getting more and more emails and phone calls from women who confirmed to us that these issues were beginning to hold more water and becoming much more of a valid and serious problem.

    So here is the solution…the end all to all the doubt, all the questioning, and most importantly, all the abuse and suffering.

    Let’s get that “Best Practices Paper” written and then immediately APPLIED as a standard to the trucking industry’s policies of ethics and procedure. Bring up all the solutions for all the problems and get the ATA to endorse it.

    In doing so, you
    A- Admit there is a serious problem existing
    B- Acknowledge that Changes Need to be Made to ensure the safety of ALL trainees and Co-drivers
    C- The ATA acknowledges that there is a problem and wants to resolve it for the betterment of trucking

    I see no other way

    I will be more than willing to be a part of the Best Practices paper if you so choose. I have many ideas and have read others posts who also have some great thoughts about it.
    Donna Smirh´s last blog ..Truck Driver Shortage – Here We Go Again My ComLuv Profile

    • Thank you Donna! You have the right attitude and have a good plan. Anything I can do to help, you know to count me in.

      Marge

    • Randy:

      Evening Donna,

      Good comments and the point that a Best Practices paper needs to go ahead and be written, reviewed and uniformly applied as a standard across the board needed to be emphasized. Although all of the CDL schools and companies by default have some sort of sexual harassment policy in place the uniqueness of the training/co-driver situation makes some special standards necessary. How many other industries are you aware of that have their employees spread out and this remote from the place of business on a daily basis? It has to be a nightmare for both the companies and the employees to deal with and manage.

      One significant thing, which I have already seen mentioned by Mike Rone, is the point that leaving your truck can be considered abandonment and will show up on your employment/DAC record. This policy must be changed so that a situation deemed as harassing or abusive will be clearly exempted from this. Some drivers may play the system with this but it is better that than to have even one person subjected to the stress and belittlement. As some of the other comments have said, if you’re in fear of loosing your job you’re going to be hesitant about speaking up or acting, even for your own safety.

      The remoteness of drivers from the terminals also require that companies establish policies that can allow them to take control of the situation as effectively as possible at a distance. Arrange for the victim to be transported back to the home terminal as quickly as possible whether that be by bus or a nearby company truck. The other driver should also be routed back as soon as possible, either through immediate delivery of the load or handing it off to another driver.

      Dispatchers should be trained and made aware to report these situations and take action immediately. The individual responsible for handling harassment situations at the home office should be informed and should take action in no different manner than if the employees were right down the hall.

      This is just a brief web based article but it is a good overview on harassment policy.

      http://humanresources.about.com/od/glossarys/a/sexualharassdef.htm

      All of this will not be of much use thought without a party like the ATA on board with it and driving it. Following the recommendations of the Best Practice paper should be mandatory for corporate membership in the ATA or any trucking related organization.

  • I feel so heartened and encouraged by seeing all of you powerful, strong, passionate and intelligent women coming together to achieve a common goal: Safety for women in the trucking industry. And yes, it is 100% true that many women are afraid to
    speak, afraid of “what will he do next”, retaliation, a ruined DAC, etc.
    Donna, I think that your “best practices” idea is a very good one!
    Marge Bailey, Desiree, Ellen Voie, myself, are also on the same page with that idea. Desiree and I were talking one day, and getting ideas for a “co-driver” match up, or compatibility quiz to give drivers, so that “nightmare co-driver” experiences could possibly be eliminated. My “nightmare co-driver” experience certainly pales in comparison with some of the horror stories we have heard, and I’m glad that my video may have helped others to come forward with their stories. Thank you to Trucker Desiree for featuring it, tweeting it, and getting the word out. Even though
    we all may not agree on certain things, we are all in agreement that there are working conditions that absolutely must change for the better. I am proud of all of you who wish to work together to affect positive changes for the women in the industry, and to see
    the industry improve for all concerned.
    I love and admire you all! God Bless!
    NJKatwoman´s last blog ..J.D. Crowe and The New South My ComLuv Profile

    • There is a solution to help companies who have the “Team Business Model” which I have recently become aware of because of Tracy Hamm.

      Driver Match is a website that lets driver find their own co-driver and it eliminates a lot of liability from the companies.

      The creator is actually a Trainer at CRST and his Mission is to help people effectively team up with co-drivers.

      This IS NOT a dating site and for an additional charge a background check can be included in profiles.

      Jim Weldon of Driver Match has begun what I was speaking of last year on the WIT forum which is a “Good Trainer Network”

      This sort of “Word of Mouth” is good for the companies and help eliminate the bad ones.

      Only verified student can report on trainers.

      Jim Weldon has a well thought out site and has been working with REAL Women in Trucking to gather ideas to help Women find better tools and tips to make their training and teaming experience safe.

      He actually just completed training his first female student who found him through Driver Match.

      Expect a Blog Talk Radio show show in the near future that I will co-host with Jim Weldon to talk about “Do’s & Don’ts” to team driving.

      It is our hope that Carriers might see the value of effective team placement from day one is more cost efficient and safe for drivers.

      Visit the Driver Match Fan page on Facebook

      &

      Check Out

      http://www.drivermatch.com

      We have solutions, we need the carriers to implement them and stop jacking off.
      TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

      • Ayah:

        http://www.drivermatch.com is a great idea and one Dave and I knew was sorely needed. Seems there is a group of advocates working for the drivers and a group of advocates working for the companies.

        Wondering what Arrow Trucking connections were with WIT if any?

      • Are we to understand that Mr Weldon is an employee of CRST?

        Marge

        • Jim Weldon is a O/O Trainer at CRST & the creator of Driver Match.

          http://www.drivermatch.com

          He sent me a sample of some emails this morning from “confused” females who are looking to enter the trucking industry.
          The internet has so many misleadings ads & recruiting sites for trucking.
          This confusion is part of the problem.
          Driver Match is a tool for SAFE EFFECTIVE TEAM DRIVING & NOT a Dating Site.
          A Good Trainer Word of Mouth to Eliminate Bad Apples will reflect on both company reputation & driver if he/she compnay jump.
          Jim Weldon supports SAFE training & Teaming for Female Truckers & he is willing to do what it takes to create a tool to help Women locate a suitable co-driver that won’t have “another” agenda

        • He was in talks with them but I do not know the details. It is a money issue I believe.

          Like with Tracy Hamm, she has offered many solutions over the years to CRST but it’s a money issue.

          Why fix it if they can keep the cat in the bag?

          Well thet cat just fell out with a thud so what now?
          TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

  • I am happy to have a true heroine of the Arrow Trucking Debacle oversee what is occuring on this thread.

    Doona Creekmore & Dana Stanley worked tirelessly through Christmas to help Arrow Drivers and continue to help drivers with their new project http://www.roadproservices.com

    Thank You Donna Creekmore for watching these festivities.

    Your experience behind the wheel and inside the industry is invaluable to solving the problems Women Truckers face.
    TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

  • Jane Driver:

    I have started this post several times and had to stop due to extreme emotional anguish it causes me to even think about my embarassing, humiliating, degrading and very traumatic experience with CRST over 10 years ago. Yes, I filed a complaint. Yes, I called the EEOC and an attorney. Bottom line, it was my word against his. I complained to company higher ups as well as my FEMALE dispatcher. No one cared or offered to help me. They probably knew I was telling the truth because my abuser had several complaints filed on him before me. The Kicker? His victims were not all women! That’s right, this guy preyed on young men too. How do I know this? When I finally got away from this preditor, I was met at one of CRST’s terminal by a few fellow drivers that had already heard what had happened to me. Somehow, the people I complained to spread it like wild fire like I was the brunt of a dirty joke. The two guys and two girls I spoke with asked me if my trainer’s name was (xxx) I said how did you know? They proceeded to tell me about the sick and perverted crap they had to put up with while being trained by this guy and all our stories were almost exactly the same. This made me very ill. I thaught, what’s wrong with these people that they continually allow this sick man to train new drivers. I eventually finished my training with someone else who was a terrific man and teacher. After my training, My husband and I were assigned a truck and we went to Cedar Rapids to confront the corporate execs. We were told again “her word against his” case closed. I haven’t really told two many people about the details of what happened to me because it is very painful. This man constantly humiliated me in public and private and at one point I actually thaught about jumping out of the truck while it was moving. The only thing stopping me was my husband. You see, he too was in training and counting on me so we could team, So, I sucked it up, held it in and accepted the fact that the trucking industry is a man’s world and I just needed to accept it. So, that’s what I have done for the past ten years. I have met other women through the years with similar experiences.
    When I first heard about WIT, I thaught wow this sounds great. Then I met Ellen and a couple of others at a truck show and they were flirting with the men and trying to get them to join and weren’t even paying attention to me. I thaught that I might have found an advocate but my first impression of her was “what a flake”. She’s only after membership fees. I never payed attention to them after that until the business with CRST surfaced and she seemed to be taking their side and blaming the women. If you really cared, Ellen why didn’t you take it upon yourself to do something for the victims instead of sucking up to the money tree. I wonder how many of those women in the lawsuit were victimized by the same man or even the same one that abused me? I tried to do something. I filed the formal complaints and over ten years later, the same company is still making excuses and has WIT behind them. WTF?

    Ellen, what’s it going to take? What are you afraid of? Do you even give a rats ass?

    Funny thing… I was at one time even making excuses for you because I thaught you just didn’t know any better. I thaught that you really knew nothing about the business and sooner or later you would eventually open your eyes and change your your ways. THEN… I find out you really do know about the business and have been on the road with your EX-HUSBAND and probably talked to many women and men durring this time. Are you Freakin BLIND or what? You tap dance around the questions that Heather and Desiree have asked and somehow probably baught off miss njkatwoman cause she seems to worship the ground you walk on and the only people that take a stand for you are the ones that have something to gain by it.
    Let me tell you something Lady, you can find out quite a bit about someone through public record, and your business is all over the internet. For someone who came from such a devoutly christian background, your family must be ashamed and you should be ashamed of yourself. Why don’t you do the right thing and admit your mistakes, ask for forgiveness and start doing the right thing instead of advocating EVIL.

    • admin:

      Dear Jane Driver:

      Thank You for sharing your story. I know it has been very painful for you to revisit this event.

      The greatest gift we give a predator is our silence. Our humiliation of second guessing ourselves of what is right or wrong id how a predator thrives.

      I sadly hear more and more that it is a a female dispatcher, Female cooordinator ,or female HR personnel who further traumatize the victims by shify blame, doubt and make the female think she is difficut for reporting abuse.

      The confusion and isolation from this experience makes most shut down and walk away.

      This is not acceptable and we must change it.

      Thank you again for posting here.

    • Ayah:

      That was terrible! Thank you for sharing your story. “Sick and perverted crap” is just what my husband went through too. The guy constantly talked about sheep, yes, sexually.

      When my husband was at CRST he ended up teamed with a real bully. This guy worked at humiliating him by name calling because of my husbands short stature. There were episodes that could easily have escalated into violence. His previous team driver had complained and abruptly left him so dispatch knew he was trouble and did nothing to warn my husband.

      The experience stayed with him for awhile. He only did a month with Chucky but it was a month of hell.

  • If there is a solution to the problem please feel free to holler at me. I’m with yall all the way! Just let me know. I haven’t been on much and been quiet because lack of time. This whole pregnancy thing and chasing kids around is about to be the death of me. I slept 9-10 hours last night and I’m already wore out and have been all day.
    Just holler at me or shoot me an e-mail, myspace, facebook and everywhere else!

    Danielle

  • Ayah:

    Marge you said; “I don’t know any other way to state what I said in a way that would reach your level of understanding”. Could you talk down to me a little more your condescension is amusing.

    You said; “I worked with CRST for 5 yrs as their job advertiser and job display consultant”. I take it that means you were a recruiter? The ones that convince you how awesome this company is then disappear? They lie to you about how much money you will be bringing home, make lots of promises then stop answering the phone.

    So you went through the school and rode with a trainer then worked your tail off on little pay for months all the while dodging bullets and perverts?

    Did you read Jane Driver’s post? This has nothing to do with being a family or getting along. It has to do with truth, reality and protecting women from abuses in trucking.

    Respectfully,

    Ayah

    • Ayah, I didn’t intend to be condesending that’s your words, not mine. What I meant is I tried to drill it down to something that you would have a hard time skewing or putting your spin on but I was wrong, you found a way!

      NO I was not a recruiter for them I was exactly what I said, their JOB advertiser, or at least one of the Internet jobs portal sites they used at that time. I also consulted with Randy Scheel (the recruiting manager at that time) on many issues, one of them was teaming male and females together and he viewed my advice as valuable. For instance, we discussed the fact that less than 6% of women are OTR drivers. 4.8% of them, at that time, were teaming with a significant other. If there are not enough women to go around for those coming into driving who need training, do you turn them away because you don’t have another female to pair them with?

      What’s your answer?

      Marge/WIT

      Marge/WIT

  • I will not be on here today. I have to get some work done at some point. ;-)

    Have a blessed day everyone.

    Marge

  • Randy:

    Good Morning Marge,

    I can understand why many drivers may be confused about what WIT is really there for.

    They may perceive Ellen’s role to be primarily responsible for addressing concerns that female drivers feel are issues because Ellen, through WIT, seems to frequently involve herself in addressing issues that are outside of its mission. While this is commendable it should not receive more emphasis than the actual defined role of WIT when she is acting as its representative. Ellen’s statement that her current role is to be an advocate for drivers may also contribute to the confusion.

    Should WIT refocus on its defined purpose and mission? This could potentially eliminate the confusion that it is an advocacy group providing support to women truckers. If its role is to encourage industry to open up positions for women in trucking related fields that extend beyond driving itself then maybe its focus and actions should reflect that more emphatically or clearly.

    This portion of your mission statement may also easily be misread: “…minimize obstacles faced by women working in the trucking industry.” This can be perceived as performing an advocacy function and could possibly stand to be clarified. Maybe it would be more precise if it read “…minimize obstacles faced by women seeking employment in trucking related industries.”

    Best Regards,

    Randy

    • Randy thank you pointing out the main reasons why people have gotten the impression that WIT is an advocacy group.

      Until concerned people like Desiree came onto the scene pushing Ellen in particular to advocate on issues of women in the workplace, WIT’s mission was quite clear. However it’s hard to not get involved helping those who contact anyone of us at WIT. I soon realized what path the women on this forum, especially Desiree, wanted WIT and Ellen to take.

      I too would like to see the word ‘obstacle’ more clearly defined or even use a different word in the mission statement.

      Obstacle, as used in the mission statement, simply means that WIT is dedicated to bringing about solutions that will attract more women to enter the industry help with retention of those already here. We’ve already accomplished more truck friendly design to accomodate shorter people. You live in the truck 24/7. If it isn’t designed to meet your body’s requirements, then it can cause fatique, disparity of reach and a myriad of other uncomfortable obstacles that can be a daily aggravation to many. A happy driver is a safer driver.

      I am currently on a committee to do a study on truck stops and prepare a paper on how they can better serve the needs of women. Once we have completed it we will then get it out there and hopefully gain the managers and owners attention and we’ll see real changes take place.

      I could list more projects we have in the works but it would be better for everyone to visit the site and review our accomplishments, goals and projects there. http://www.womenintrucking.org

      If you notice I have posted here quite a number of times that WIT is not an advocacy group in the sene that the women on here would like us to be or think we are but not one person on this forum, other than you and NJkatwoman (Christy), understands and accepts our role in the industry. I am at my wit’s end (that is not meant as a pun) trying to get that across. It’s getting a bit frustrating.

      Now, on a personal level, not as a WIT board of director, I have and do offer what help I can to anyone who contacts me. That may come across as a little confusing also because I am on the board.

      I know there are some problems in this industry and when it comes to problems every industry has their share and I understand the people here on this forum are attempting to get help and/or create change. I admire them and if I personally can be of help, I’ve made it quite clear I will… however, what I do on a personal level is outside and unconnected with my position as a board member. That’s not so easy for Ellen. She is recognized as WIT personified so when she does something personally, it’s viewed as a WIT action. As an example, she sent money out of her own pocket to Christy when she was out of work to help feed her cats. Not a big thing nor was it something WIT had a part in, but it sure made Christy feel a lot better.

      It’s very unsettling that a lot of what I say here gets mis-interpreted by the same people over and over again. I don’t know how to fix that but there’s got to be a way. If you have any suggestions I would appreciate it!

      Have a good day!
      Marge

      • Randy:

        Maybe it was the generality of the “Women in Trucking” name that resulted in the confusion as well. Would it be better for WIT to focus on its original charter and have another group form, or an existing group assume, the role of women drivers advocate? This would remove the potential conflict of interest, keep either group from spreading its resources too thin and help them both be more effective. Many of the items you listed above are really advocacy points that do not seem to fit in with the concept of WIT as it has been described. By the nature of WIT’s mission description close contact with trucking related businesses is essential. By also serving the role of driver’s advocate WIT may have to play on both sides of the fence with the resulting conflicts. WIT may have to make the decision to either pursue the advocacy route or to lobby for the expansion of careers for women in trucking related industries. There is a small area where the two can overlap and work hand-in-hand but by and large it would be better to have them independent of one another

        I think there would have also been much less confusion early on if Ellen’s private efforts as an advocate, like your individual efforts, had not been communicated or pursued through WIT. As you stated, she is WIT personified and as such has to be much more aware of the potential for confusion.

        • Randy,

          Thank you for your suggestions and insight! I sent your remarks to Ellen.

          I have long wondered why the person or people who run this blog, Desiree and AskTheTrucker.com have not founded an official advocacy group themselves. Seems to me that would be the natural progression for them to take.

          Marge

      • Jane Driver:

        Honestly Marge, It doesn’t really mattter what you or Ellen claim to be working on. We have all have seen those claims of projects in the works before with no results. Your words of concern and projects in the works are worthless. The credibility of your organization is spiraling down fast and gaining more speed with each ridiculous statement you or Ellen make. Why can’t you just be honest? Admit the lies and deceptions and regroup and actually attempt to do some good. One Good thing that WIT has done is encouraged REAL people who care to actually take a valid stand for what is right. If it hadn’t been for WIT, some of these truths may have never surfaced. It’s too bad that WIT was unable to stand behind the people who desperatly needed help and thank GOD there were others out there who saw what was happening and stepped up to the plate that WIT had snubbed it’s nose at.

        • Ayah:

          What Jane said. Sorry Marge but the facts and evidence reveal who you and Ellen are. You don’t think being sexually harassed or raped is an obstacle for women drivers? Look, my husband is 4’10″ and he is a professional driver. His height has never been an “obstacle” but CRST’s team driver coordination methods sure were.

          You don’t know what’s going on but since you had a position under a recruiter you think you do. But we both know, you don’t. It is a DISGRACE to women that CRST is a corporate member of WIT. That my dear is corruption.

          Respectfully,

          Ayah

          • I won’t even dignify your assumptions and question with a reply. My being a woman why would you ask such a rediculous question or make such outrageous statements?

        • Jane would you please call me? I can reached anytime from 10am – 7pm eastern, 7M-F. Sat-Sun from noon til 6 pm. My phone # is 989.892.8433. I’d like to apologise in person.

  • Dear Marge:

    Because there have been so many distortions of facts it is nessesary to recap. Recall that this has been 2 years in the making so in order to put the pieces together enitites who should have never been a factor must be included. This was a long 2 years where WIT did not want to become involved.

    The straight forward question has always been
    “Why does WIT encourage Women into Trucking when they are not clear on which training companies holds itself to a high standard for personal safety training?

    “How does a female student find a company that has proper harassment training and enforcement poiicies?

    “How does the Female student who knows nothing about trucking get from Ellen’s “Crushing Cones-What to expect at CDL book” to working for one of her sponsers, such as Wal-Mart”

    If as you have revealed here on this post that WIT is definately NOT an advocate for Women then Why do you not clarify that?

    If Women are being harmed and seeking assistance do you not see you see you are harming them more?

    WIT is causing trauma to someone who may already be in shock or emerging from shock which is generally the case from a destroyed marriage or employment situation. This will also be the case from returning Women Veterans who have served in our Armed Forces who suffer from PTSD.

    If WIT cannot figure out what Women need in Trucking that is higher on the food chain than ergonomics I do not see why they exist or why they require a favorable tax status.

    WIT is not serving Women Truckers who are in their infancy in this industry.

    High Recruitment of Women when retention remains much lower and given volume of misconduct at the training level , I believe WIT is obligated to reveal why they are intent to encourage employment in an industry where a female truck driving students frequently report the same situations of misconduct who have never met one another.

    You both admit you know about it.
    You both visit radio programs and are asked to comment of a variety of Women Trucker related issues so therefore you paint or permit yourselves to be painted as advocates.

    Female friendly companies can only be defined as one who have a proven record, WIT is misleading Women into believing they exist to help Women Truckers. That would be an Advocate, you clearly state you are not. So why charge a membership fee to Women who can barely afford it and recieve a Non-Profit status to boot?

    Training Companies should be required to provide a a video presentation for Strict Conduct to arriving students.
    Trainers should be fully evaluated & also made to watch a video presentation of conduct with the student.

    In some video training there are short multiple choice questions that are available in modules which do not permit you to move forward until you have answered the correct question.

    The end of the presentation has a digital signature that you fully understand.

    I just attented a class on Fatigued Driving, Papaerless Logs & CSA2010. The instructor was a former bounty hunter and Navy man who was unquivicol to our class to say that if his Children were harmed because our failure to obey rules and regulations he would come looking for us.

    I don’t think I will forget his class in the near future.

    This is how Harassment policies should be introduced to the trucking industry. CLEAR and to the Point from DAY ONE! Just saying “ZERO TOLERENCE” means nothing to a guy who has never been around Women.

    Naive Female Students are also those who think learning to drive a truck & find a husband are all part of the same process. This comes from misleading advertising. Women are being recruited into trucking with a disregard for their personal safety.

    Following a video presentation and 800 number should be provided for that student to call for help.

    We have an IRC (Incident Response Center) department but I was not made aware of that during orientation clearly. I found them by accident and despite their professionalism at first, the ball was dropped internally later which is frequently the case. Follow up NOT Retaliation!

    Dispatchers, Fleet Managers often do not have the skill or the tact to speak to a trauma victim & if WIT is not trained for this either they are anothe rpart of the problem by continuing to promote themselves as advocates.

    A person expeiencing a trauma will often lash out and verbally attack. This miscommunication puts the dispatcher or person fielding the call on the defense and the entire event begins to break down.

    WIT is not trained or prepared for this trauma occurence so they should not EVER present themselves as an answer to any Female Trucking Student.

    Truck Stops should be made aware that isolation is part of the process to break down a target. For Instance, my co-driver refused to take me to our terminal, I did not have money or resources to get there alone and I did not know a number to call.

    Making Truck Stops aware of this very common situation where Women are isolated and do not know anyone creates a “Safe Haven” with availible 800′s which goes in hand with what Domestic Violence shelters are doing in public restrooms and what the group “Truckers against Trafficking” is trying to get the Truck Stops to do to raise awareness of to help those being held and used as child sex slaves.

    Knowing that the truck stop has a list of IRC and/or emergency numbers in the ladies room or behind the counter when a driver MUST get off the truck without recourse. This needs to be worked out. The systems in place are merely a wall of silence that further victimized the victim. If WIT is not set up for that and refuses to be set up for that, then they should step aside and clarify this.

    WIT utilizes the name women & trucking in it’s title but you say WIT is not an advocate for trucking women, yet you encourage women into trucking jobs.

    You say the word obstacle should be removed from the mission statement and I agree if you are not an advocate because the biggest obstacles are being misled as a female student, fed into the waiting arms of a predator. having NO ONE to call for help & losing your dream to become a driver for one of the WIT Sponsers like Walmart, Tyson Food or Frito-Lay who require a good deal of accident free experience before employing any driver.

    Please clarify how much experience a driver needs to work for one of WIT’s sponsers & what training companies are suggested for a female who has just bought Ellen’s Book “Crushing Cones”.

    Thank You,

    Desiree
    TruckerDesiree´s last blog ..“Sam” from my Story, R.I.P. “Cujo” My ComLuv Profile

    • Desiree thank you for your comments and questions.

      I will answer to the best of my ability your main concerns:

      DW: WIT utilizes the name women & trucking in it’s title but you say WIT is not an advocate for trucking women, yet you encourage women into trucking jobs.

      MB: Women in Trucking refers to ALL women in the trucking industry, not just drivers. There are different types of advocacy. Your agenda is harrassment and discrimination and educating women to what to expect and it seems you want to find solutions on their behalf, etc.

      WIT’s agenda is making the job more appealing to those who want to enter the industry including retention of those already a part of the industry. By more appealing, we work hard to educate women (and men) in which CDL schools and training companies are credible and women friendly. We are available pre-training and after they are hired for consultation and solid, truthful advice.

      DW: You say the word obstacle should be removed from the mission statement and I agree if you are not an advocate because the biggest obstacles are being misled as a female student, fed into the waiting arms of a predator. having NO ONE to call for help & losing your dream to become a driver for one of the WIT Sponsers like Walmart, Tyson Food or Frito-Lay who require a good deal of accident free experience before employing any driver.

      MB: To name companies would take too much space here so I encourage you to visit the website, click on corporate members, and those listed we have no reson to believe we should not reccommend each and every one as a viable, credible company or school. http://www.womenintrucking.org

      As for companies who set high requirement standards you can expect this to be the case. Safety is HUGE in our indsutry and rightly so, also insurance companies control some of the requirements.

      DW: Please clarify how much experience a driver needs to work for one of WIT’s sponsers & what training companies are suggested for a female who has just bought Ellen’s Book “Crushing Cones”.

      MB: Experience level requirement varies by company, as you know. Again as for naming companies just go to the website. They are all listed: http://www.womenintrucking.org

      I have my copy of “Crushing Cones” loaned out right now so at this time I cannot name any schools that may be recommended in Ellen’s book. I encourage people who don’t have it and are interested in the book to get a copy.

    • I apologise. I overlooked this part of a question so I will address here:

      DW: You say the word obstacle should be removed from the mission statement and I agree if you are not an advocate because the biggest obstacles are being misled as a female student, fed into the waiting arms of a predator.

      MB: I don’t remember making the statement that I would like to see the word removed, what I said was maybe it should be replaced with a better word (same meaning)or more clearly defined. That would be up to the board of directors collectively to make that decision.

      Removing obstacles can be interpreted many ways BUT TO ME as it is used in our mission statement, it means removing the mis-information people may have about the industry. If negative (untruth), that can be an obstacle. Another specific I hear almost everytime from women who call me is how much weight are they expected to lift or will they have to touch freight at all? Never has anyone asked me about co-habitation with someone else in the truck while training but that is covered also in our conversation.

      I make sure they know this job is not for those who are not willing to give it 110% effort and let them know it’s not for everybody. I tell them not to be intimidated and no question is a stupid question so ask whatever they are not sure of or someone hasn’t covered with them or made clear.

      Another thing I tell everyone, READ the company manual. Read it until you have it pretty much memorized. It’s your lifeline to understanding your company’s expectations, guidelines, emergeny plans of action, important numbers you may need, etc. I don’t recommend a school that is not PTDI certified. I don’t recommend a company who does not have a toll free # that is manned 24/7. I don’t post carriers who I consider are ‘newbie mills’. Never have, never will.

      There is so much I cover with them no matter their experience level that I could fill this page so I won’t list them all but anyone with questions you want answered truthfully, just call me: 989-892-8433. I will cover the good, bad and ugly!

  • Randy:

    Joe,

    I don’t care what the conditions or reasons are but you do not ever say the type of thing you just did about anyone, male or female.

  • (http://ooida.com/Who_We_Are/index.shtml):
    OOIDA – OUR MISSION

    “The mission of the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association, Inc. is to serve owner-operators, small fleets and professional truckers; to work for a business climate where truckers are treated equally and fairly; to promote highway safety and responsibility among all highway users; and to promote a better business climate and efficiency for all truck operators.”

    What OOIDA and WIT have in common is that they are both ASSOCIATIONS and individuals CHOOSE to join these groups. OOIDA has dozens, perhaps even 100 employees and they cannot respond to every issue. How then can WIT, with only 2 part-time employees be expected to resolve every problem brought to them? WIT attempts to focus on the issues we are set up to address. We are by far NOT an activist group that addresses women’ issues with discrimination, harrassment or sexual issues. Even if WIT were that kind of advocacy group with only 2 P/T employees we wouldn’t have the staff nor the money it takes. We knew this going into this association and that is probably the main reason we didn’t take that route. So c’on people, lighten up on the WIT!

    BTW, no where in the name of our assco. does it have the word ‘Advocate’.

  • Joe I am a victim of sexual assault. Don’t make assumptions about someone you don’t know, ok driver?

  • Dana I apreciate your interest and will hopefully clear that up for you.

    1) I get he name mixed up with a driver friend of mine who’s handle is Jane Trucker. I apologise. I hope she understand the names are so close, it’s an obvious sanfoo.

    2) I did see the statement ‘sucked it up” and natuarally thought she had to do that because her husband’s wishes were for them to both finish up training so they could team together. Two other people I asked said they understood it to mean what I thought it meant, so I’m not the only who reached that conclusion.

    You will be hard pressed to find anyone on the face of this earth more involved or caring for our truckers than me. I take abuse seriously. I’ve been a victim myself so I totally understand.

    I was not trying to detract from Jane’s situation. I made a 5 word statement that I was stunned by what I read as it translated to me that her husband knew she was in a bad situation and stood by and did nothing. That was my impression. Which to me, thinking that is what happened, felt even more sad for her because it would have added insult on top of an already terrible experience. Now that this is cleared up and I misunderstood, everybody needs to come down off the ceiling.

    I hope Jane calls me. I would love to talk with her. She seems like a strong woman, a smart woman and someone I’d like to know.

  • Marge I agree with you no one should put up with harrassment, but also in the REAL world of WOMEN IN TRUCKING, retaliation does exist.

    A driver gets off a truck,for whatever reason, even if they have a Co-Driver, they get labeled with “leaving the truck without notice in an unauthorized location” or even “Abandonement”. This is placed in their work history file and the DAC Report and that WOMAN runs the risk of not being hired by other trucking companies. Therefore, her career is definitely at risk, maybe Jane Driver’s husband understood the sad facts of REAL life.

    I have seen this myself in working with a woman, even after giving written notice of resignation after giving verbal notice, the dispatcher, did not route her home. At the end of that period she had enough and got of the truck and is now “Labeled”. We are in the process of working on this with her, but it still takes time and there are no guarantees that it will be changed. So what does she do in the mean time?

    What is “Abandonement”? If you are who you claim to be, then work with the Industry for definitions to make this “Obstacle” defined or have more specific definitions established. Start with the members in WIT. Put some of the Exec’s that are members to work for WIT. This would be of benefit to all drivers not just women and I think it would fall within WIT’s mission as you defined earlier.

    All this woman, that I talked about above, wants to do is be a driver. Now it appears she may have to file a suite to clear up what actually happened, so that she can drive again. Is this the way things should be in this Industry? Why not try to remove “Obstacles” for drivers. Would this not help attract more women in this Industry? Would it not help the retention rate of women in this Industry? That is WIT’s mission, if I understood your earlier post, is it not?

    • Thank you Mike,

      I sent your remarks to Ellen. Makes sense.

      When I advise anyone to get out the truck I tell them to immediately contact their company. That company should bring both drivers in and take control of the situation.

      If Jane Driver or anyone who has had a hard time getting hired due to an harrassment/abuse situation, if they will call me, depending on their background check & MVR, I will go to the mat to get them hired. My reputation is, “If Marge can’t help you, nobody can”.

      Marge
      989-892-8433

  • angie:

    Dear Mr. Joe Decker my name is Angie and as for your comment about pie hole Bu–s–t from Marge and Ellen maybe you should check your references before makeing comments. Marge has been a trucker in the past as for Ellen she has been around enough trucking woman to know what really goes on out here…. As for your statement i personally AM a WOMAN TRUCKER FOR OVER 30 YEARS. I personally think that you owe Marge and Ellen an apology. Im more concerned about how you can come out with a comment like that to make friends with the woman on this website and possibly be a preditor yourself…. I have seen the harassment out here and it can be ignored.. If a woman is being harassed or threaded with rape while training with a trainer. she can get off the truck at the safest place and call the POLICE and report the driver the truck and so on…. if she choices to stay in that situation then its her decision… this whole topic is going way out of control… Ladies please dont stay in that situation. if you were to get on the CB and say someone ways trying to rape you.. you would have probably 100 good truck drivers professional male and female coming to help you… please pay attention to all the signals…

  • admin:

    Joe Decker’s comments have been deleted.

    I will like to remind everyone that there are limitations to Freedom of Speech.

    Please refer to “Fighting Words” link I have provided below.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

    I apoligize for the delay in moderating Joe’s comment.
    Comments have been closed for this section of questions, please continue into Part 2 of the Ellen Voie , Heather Rose Q & A

  • Sexual harassment at work place, schools, collages, parties, travel, roads etc. is a very common news which we hear the most. Most of the peoples are not aware about sexual harassment and its very important to make them aware, this will help us to decrease occurring sexual harassment. By the help of PriaCash website we can came to know a lots of things base on sexual harassment. It’s my personal experience that this website help girls a lot and we can share our views and quarries with others in its forum.

    • Thank You for providing these resources.
      We are preparing a solutions post & I will like to utilize this information you have shared.
      In Trucking, harassment &/or conduct guidance is nearly non-existent but considered a service oriented job.
      The issues of the overall decline in society of conduct fuels the already present structure than has refused to adjust as recruitment of diversity has grown.
      Our goal is to address this oversight given the living situations students are required to be subjected to in trucking.
      This is a highway safety matter as well as a personal safety matter.
      Thank you for the information.

  • Hi Desiree,
    I wanted to let you know that I will be presenting Human Trafficking 101 webinars in April. I am sending along the press release for you. Have a great day.
    Kylla Leeburg

    Transport For Christ
    PRESS RELEASE
    March 18, 2010

    For Immediate Release

    Educational Webinars Cover Human Trafficking for Trucking and Travel Plaza Industry Members

    Human trafficking is a $32-billion-a-year business, destroying countless lives and enslaving its victims, the majority of whom are women and children. Most Americans are aware of the problem in Asia and Africa, but are oblivious to that fact that it is big business here in the United States.

    To a great extent, domestic sex trafficking is occurring along our nation’s highways and at its truck stops. Human traffickers target truckers, because of their transient nature, at truck stops, rest areas and restaurants as consumers of the children and women they sell. Pimps have also been known to recruit truck drivers to transport girls over state lines, removing some of the risk from their shoulders and placing it on those of the trucker and his/her company.

    While the average age for a young girl to enter the sex-for-sale industry in the United States is 12, many of them are forced to lie about their age, pretend they enjoy what they do and present a much older image of themselves. National statistics puts the annual number of American children and teens trafficked at approximately 300,000. That doesn’t count the additional 17,000 internationals trafficked into our country each year for forced sex and labor.

    But, because members of the trucking and travel plaza industry represent the eyes and ears of America on those highways, they can play a critical part in fighting this crime and those who perpetrate it. They simply need to know what to look for, what questions to ask and what steps to take.

    Transport For Christ (www.transportforchrist.com) is partnering with a Chapter 61 Ministries (www.chapter61.com) initiative, Truckers Against Trafficking (www.truckersagainsttrafficking.com), to help educate the trucking and travel plaza industries, as well as the general public, about the truth surrounding human trafficking in America and steps they can take to fight it.

    Transport For Christ will host informational webinars presented by Chapter 61 Ministries on April 14, 21 and 28 at 9 p.m. EDT.

    If you would like to attend one of these webinars, please send your name and the exact email address for us to mail the invitation (this will be the address you use for the webinar). For more information, please contact Scott Weidner, president and CEO of Transport for Christ at (717) 426-9977.

    Send Request to: tfcio@transportforchrist.org
    Please title request “Trafficking webinar”

    • Hi Kylla:
      Thanks for the info. I would like to have a special post prepared for “Truckers Against Trafficking” & your organizations mission.
      We are all a little pressed this week because we are heading out to Louisville for the truck show.
      You are always welcome to post a link or update on the facebook fanpage for REAL Women Truckers.
      I will get with you after MATS so we can make a post here specifically for this & we can get it circulated on twitter.
      Thanks for posting.
      Desiree

  • [...] to the assertions by Ellen Voie in the Q & A about the CRST Sexual Harassment Case here on this site, the Women did not all want to be part of a lawsuit. Tracy Hamm for instance had [...]

  • [...] to the assertions by Ellen Voie in the Q & A about the CRST Sexual Harassment Case , the Women did not all want to be part of a lawsuit. Tracy Hamm for instance had filed with the [...]

  • [...]  The original unedited story is on the web site “Ask the Trucker” and it is called “A Day in the Life of a Lady Trucker”.   The back-story and commentary of the attempted cover-up is here on the “Trucker Desiree” site but portions are included in the 3 part Q & A of Ellen Voie on R.E.A.L. Women In Trucking. [...]

  • I like the cartoon picture! It lessens the serious note of the case.

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